PalmersPursuit
08-14-2007, 12:34 AM
I have heard of Female Stabilizers being used as a bottom line. Does this mean they attach the Stabilizer to the grip with brackets or do they attach it TO the bottom line? Do you advise this, doesn't sound very sturdy?
The Female version of the Stabilizer was specifically designed to be used as a bottom-line style bottle receiver and when mounted with the available bracket, it is every bit as "sturdy" as any standard bottom-line adapter. The Female version can also be used directly on top of a bottle that is used as a remote tank, carried on the back.
NOTE : Any tank used in the horizontal position (bottom-line, etc.) should have anti-siphon tube installed to minimize the chance of allowing liquid out of the tank. A regulator can reduce the effects of liquid to the gun but cannot eliminate the velocity variations that would result.
I have a Tippmann model 98 with the CO2 bottle attached in the back as
usual. What type of stabilizer would I need and other accessories.
The most common setup for the M98 is a Female Stabilizer and ring mount to replace the existing bottom line ASA. No other parts of changes would be needed. Just unbolt the current ASA from the bottom of the grip, remove the ASA from the end of the hose, reconnect the output of the Stabilizer to the end of the hose. Then bolt the ring mount to bottom of grip frame and secure the Stabilizer into place. Screw in the tank and go. Anti-siphon tube in the CA tank recommended for best results. Female Stabilizer and ring mount as shown below is $94.00 plus shipping.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/CATALOG/catalog_images/femlstab.gif
<HR>What is the general difference between the UniReg and the Stabilizer (i.e. effectiveness)?
The major benefit of the Stabilizer over the UniReg is that the Stabilizer will maintain consistency just about twice as well as the UniReg can. This is due to the design and dimensioning of the unit. Through any regulator there is a certain amount of inverse pressure variation in the output pressure that results from the variation in supply pressure. (as the supply pressure to the regulator goes up or down, the output pressure will go up or down, exactly opposite, and in a ratio that is proportional to the valve and diaphragm (or plunger) dimensions. (i.e. as the supply pressure goes down, the regulated pressure will go up slightly and vice-versa) In the case of a UniReg, that ratio of change is approx. 35:1; meaning that for every 35 psi of supply pressure change, the output pressure will vary approx. 1 psi. The Stabilizer will only vary about 1/2 as much. In other words, the Stabilizer is rated as a 70:1 regulator, in that it takes a 70 psi change in supply pressure to yield a 1 psi change in output pressure. Also, the Stabilizer weighs about half that of the UniReg yet will handle the same pressures. It should also be noted that the ONLY way to avoid the variables in pressure is to use two-stage regulation. This in effect, is 2 regulators in series, where the second regulator will reverse the inversion from the first one. It is actually the inherent use of 2-stage reg. that provides the consistency that is so highly proclaimed about the use of High Pressure Air or N2. (one regulator at the tank and the second stage at the gun. The AMag has the 2nd stage built into the gun, not the case with a "cocker.)
I hope this is not too confusing, it is a difficult concept to explain.
<HR>I have read that a remote acts as an expansion chamber, also I have read that you should not place an expansion chamber downstream from a regulator as chilled co2 will warm up and expand an increase PSI. Wouldn't this make the stabilizer less effective if I use it attached right off of the remote?
Personally, I do not advocate the use of an expansion chamber at all. I prefer to use a tank that is filled to about 10-15% less than stated capacity. A slightly larger gaseous area will be had by the use of a remote setup, but the actual effectiveness of it is ambiguous, at best. This is another concept that is very difficult to explain but it boils down to the fact that CO2 requires a certain amount of pressurized gas as a "cap" to keep the liquid in a stable state. All an expansion chamber can really do is provide enough room to compensate for what is needed. The best way that I know to explain the relationship of pressure and volume/capacity is show the static pressures of a tank that contains different amounts of liquid CO2. This example is for a 20 oz. tank at 72 degrees F. ( the numbers shown are approximates but close enough to demonstrate the diminishing pressure curve as it relates to the fill state of the tank)
amount of liquid CO2 in a 20oz tank pressure 21 oz 1150 psi+ 20 oz 950 psi 19 oz 875 psi 17 oz 825 psi 15 oz 815 psi 12 oz 810 psi 6 oz 805 psi 2 oz 800 psi</PRE>Note the diminishing pressure variance as the actual volume in the tank is reduced. There is one thing about CO2 that is very consistent and that is change. However, the changes are very consistent and very predictable. The trick to the effective use of CO2 is to be aware of what is going on and to operate within the nature of things.
An Expansion chamber can over expand the CO2 and reduce the saturation of liquid within the gas. So when you fire the ball, the gas has less potential energy when released. Therefore you must use more volume of gas with an expansion chamber. Another problem with expansion chamber is that once they fill up with liquid it's no longer an expansion chamber. Once Co2 is regulated under 600 psi it can no longer remain a liquid. Most remotes have a small hole, so they don't expand the gas too much.
A Stabilizer out performs an expansion chamber simply because it regulates the pressure within the marker. If you can keep the pressure consistent your velocity will be more consistent. Consistency equals accuracy. The Stabilizers also have a 70-1 ratio. So if your input pressure changes 70 psi your regulated output will only change 1 psi. Most other regs only have 30-1 ratio. So in short an expansion chamber is nothing more than a waist of gas.
<HR>"Maintenance" should be routine. (cleaning and lubrication) In all fairness, most "maintenance" " problems" can be avoided by getting it set-up right and leaving it alone. (true for most any paintgun) Something that I have learned over the years it that, "The more that you mess with it, the more you will have to mess with it."
Does a Stabilizer help the gun's cold weather performance?
Not really an improvement on "performance", just better consistency throughout a broader range of temp conditions.
<HR>Can the Stabilizer be used as a front grip?
Certainly. Both the Male and Direct model Stabilizers are used as front grips.
<HR>Your stab. are the greatest on CO2. Do they perform as well on HPA?
The Stabilizer is a great regulator for just about any kind of air or gas.
It stands to reason that if the Stabilizer can perform as well as it does
in the inherently unstable environment of CO2, it will perform even better
when it receives a more consistent input to work on. That is why
2-stage regulation works so well. The more consistent the input is
the more consistent the output will be, on just about any regulator.
<HR>Q: My Male Stabilizer won't line up line where I want it. What do I do?
Just unscrew it until it does "line up". It does not have to be tight
into the ASA in order to function properly. The head does not rotate separately from the body.
DO NOT swap the input fitting and plug. It will not work at
all that way It will not feel loose when there is air pressure in the
system. A bottle O-ring can be used inside the ASA to take up
the slack if the loose feel is a problem.
<HR>Q:I changed My fittings around and now My Stabilizer won't adjust?
Included in the instruction sheet for the Stabilizer.
DO NOT change or relocate any of the fittings that come on the regulator. On the Male/vertical Stabilizer, only one port will allow input pressures and it can be left a bit loose in the ASA to line up the input fitting where you want it. It won’t be loose when air pressure is on it. Or, you can tighten it against an o-ring to take up the slack.
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/FAQ/male-reverse-airline.jpg
<HR><DL><DD>http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/marco-edited/LowPressConversionKit2_cc.jpg <DT> Q: I'm interested in the Low Pressure ad-on kit for my Stabilizer, what will this do for my gun? <DT> <DD>The LP kit for the Stabilizer is not an "add on" but rather a different set <DD>of parts that allow the Stabilizer to be a little more consistent output <DD>pressures when operating at pressures below about 225 psi. Unless you have <DD>a need for such very low operating pressures, the LP setup is of no <DD>advantage. Unless your paintgun is designed to operate at around 200 psi or <DD>less, the Standard Stabilizer is the better choice. <DD>The LP kit for the Stabilizer is $25.00 and it consists of a main spring, <DD>labeled adjuster cap, adjuster screw, adjuster disc and a plunger with a <DD>pressure relief valve. </DD></DL>
The Female version of the Stabilizer was specifically designed to be used as a bottom-line style bottle receiver and when mounted with the available bracket, it is every bit as "sturdy" as any standard bottom-line adapter. The Female version can also be used directly on top of a bottle that is used as a remote tank, carried on the back.
NOTE : Any tank used in the horizontal position (bottom-line, etc.) should have anti-siphon tube installed to minimize the chance of allowing liquid out of the tank. A regulator can reduce the effects of liquid to the gun but cannot eliminate the velocity variations that would result.
I have a Tippmann model 98 with the CO2 bottle attached in the back as
usual. What type of stabilizer would I need and other accessories.
The most common setup for the M98 is a Female Stabilizer and ring mount to replace the existing bottom line ASA. No other parts of changes would be needed. Just unbolt the current ASA from the bottom of the grip, remove the ASA from the end of the hose, reconnect the output of the Stabilizer to the end of the hose. Then bolt the ring mount to bottom of grip frame and secure the Stabilizer into place. Screw in the tank and go. Anti-siphon tube in the CA tank recommended for best results. Female Stabilizer and ring mount as shown below is $94.00 plus shipping.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/CATALOG/catalog_images/femlstab.gif
<HR>What is the general difference between the UniReg and the Stabilizer (i.e. effectiveness)?
The major benefit of the Stabilizer over the UniReg is that the Stabilizer will maintain consistency just about twice as well as the UniReg can. This is due to the design and dimensioning of the unit. Through any regulator there is a certain amount of inverse pressure variation in the output pressure that results from the variation in supply pressure. (as the supply pressure to the regulator goes up or down, the output pressure will go up or down, exactly opposite, and in a ratio that is proportional to the valve and diaphragm (or plunger) dimensions. (i.e. as the supply pressure goes down, the regulated pressure will go up slightly and vice-versa) In the case of a UniReg, that ratio of change is approx. 35:1; meaning that for every 35 psi of supply pressure change, the output pressure will vary approx. 1 psi. The Stabilizer will only vary about 1/2 as much. In other words, the Stabilizer is rated as a 70:1 regulator, in that it takes a 70 psi change in supply pressure to yield a 1 psi change in output pressure. Also, the Stabilizer weighs about half that of the UniReg yet will handle the same pressures. It should also be noted that the ONLY way to avoid the variables in pressure is to use two-stage regulation. This in effect, is 2 regulators in series, where the second regulator will reverse the inversion from the first one. It is actually the inherent use of 2-stage reg. that provides the consistency that is so highly proclaimed about the use of High Pressure Air or N2. (one regulator at the tank and the second stage at the gun. The AMag has the 2nd stage built into the gun, not the case with a "cocker.)
I hope this is not too confusing, it is a difficult concept to explain.
<HR>I have read that a remote acts as an expansion chamber, also I have read that you should not place an expansion chamber downstream from a regulator as chilled co2 will warm up and expand an increase PSI. Wouldn't this make the stabilizer less effective if I use it attached right off of the remote?
Personally, I do not advocate the use of an expansion chamber at all. I prefer to use a tank that is filled to about 10-15% less than stated capacity. A slightly larger gaseous area will be had by the use of a remote setup, but the actual effectiveness of it is ambiguous, at best. This is another concept that is very difficult to explain but it boils down to the fact that CO2 requires a certain amount of pressurized gas as a "cap" to keep the liquid in a stable state. All an expansion chamber can really do is provide enough room to compensate for what is needed. The best way that I know to explain the relationship of pressure and volume/capacity is show the static pressures of a tank that contains different amounts of liquid CO2. This example is for a 20 oz. tank at 72 degrees F. ( the numbers shown are approximates but close enough to demonstrate the diminishing pressure curve as it relates to the fill state of the tank)
amount of liquid CO2 in a 20oz tank pressure 21 oz 1150 psi+ 20 oz 950 psi 19 oz 875 psi 17 oz 825 psi 15 oz 815 psi 12 oz 810 psi 6 oz 805 psi 2 oz 800 psi</PRE>Note the diminishing pressure variance as the actual volume in the tank is reduced. There is one thing about CO2 that is very consistent and that is change. However, the changes are very consistent and very predictable. The trick to the effective use of CO2 is to be aware of what is going on and to operate within the nature of things.
An Expansion chamber can over expand the CO2 and reduce the saturation of liquid within the gas. So when you fire the ball, the gas has less potential energy when released. Therefore you must use more volume of gas with an expansion chamber. Another problem with expansion chamber is that once they fill up with liquid it's no longer an expansion chamber. Once Co2 is regulated under 600 psi it can no longer remain a liquid. Most remotes have a small hole, so they don't expand the gas too much.
A Stabilizer out performs an expansion chamber simply because it regulates the pressure within the marker. If you can keep the pressure consistent your velocity will be more consistent. Consistency equals accuracy. The Stabilizers also have a 70-1 ratio. So if your input pressure changes 70 psi your regulated output will only change 1 psi. Most other regs only have 30-1 ratio. So in short an expansion chamber is nothing more than a waist of gas.
<HR>"Maintenance" should be routine. (cleaning and lubrication) In all fairness, most "maintenance" " problems" can be avoided by getting it set-up right and leaving it alone. (true for most any paintgun) Something that I have learned over the years it that, "The more that you mess with it, the more you will have to mess with it."
Does a Stabilizer help the gun's cold weather performance?
Not really an improvement on "performance", just better consistency throughout a broader range of temp conditions.
<HR>Can the Stabilizer be used as a front grip?
Certainly. Both the Male and Direct model Stabilizers are used as front grips.
<HR>Your stab. are the greatest on CO2. Do they perform as well on HPA?
The Stabilizer is a great regulator for just about any kind of air or gas.
It stands to reason that if the Stabilizer can perform as well as it does
in the inherently unstable environment of CO2, it will perform even better
when it receives a more consistent input to work on. That is why
2-stage regulation works so well. The more consistent the input is
the more consistent the output will be, on just about any regulator.
<HR>Q: My Male Stabilizer won't line up line where I want it. What do I do?
Just unscrew it until it does "line up". It does not have to be tight
into the ASA in order to function properly. The head does not rotate separately from the body.
DO NOT swap the input fitting and plug. It will not work at
all that way It will not feel loose when there is air pressure in the
system. A bottle O-ring can be used inside the ASA to take up
the slack if the loose feel is a problem.
<HR>Q:I changed My fittings around and now My Stabilizer won't adjust?
Included in the instruction sheet for the Stabilizer.
DO NOT change or relocate any of the fittings that come on the regulator. On the Male/vertical Stabilizer, only one port will allow input pressures and it can be left a bit loose in the ASA to line up the input fitting where you want it. It won’t be loose when air pressure is on it. Or, you can tighten it against an o-ring to take up the slack.
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/FAQ/male-reverse-airline.jpg
<HR><DL><DD>http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/marco-edited/LowPressConversionKit2_cc.jpg <DT> Q: I'm interested in the Low Pressure ad-on kit for my Stabilizer, what will this do for my gun? <DT> <DD>The LP kit for the Stabilizer is not an "add on" but rather a different set <DD>of parts that allow the Stabilizer to be a little more consistent output <DD>pressures when operating at pressures below about 225 psi. Unless you have <DD>a need for such very low operating pressures, the LP setup is of no <DD>advantage. Unless your paintgun is designed to operate at around 200 psi or <DD>less, the Standard Stabilizer is the better choice. <DD>The LP kit for the Stabilizer is $25.00 and it consists of a main spring, <DD>labeled adjuster cap, adjuster screw, adjuster disc and a plunger with a <DD>pressure relief valve. </DD></DL>